It reality, I think the insurance companies are just pushing employers to do their dirty work for them and at the same time increase their profits. More importantly, for the purposes of this post, when surcharges arose in 2014, there was a pretty steep decline in the percent of smokers who purchased insurance. This is a great idea. This surcharge is also known as tobacco rating, and states may opt out or . See where I'm going with this. It says smokers consume about 25% more health care services than nonsmokers. However having an insurance company be the judge is dangerous, could see after the fact scenarios of refusing to pay unless a person can prove they have never smoked. As a former smoker I would absolutely not blame anybody else (Government, insurance companies, etc.) smokers get the ass end of every stick, even though people do way stupider things that risk their lives. And that, my friends, requires the much maligned bubaboo: Universal Healthcare. Smokers face significantly increased health risks, which can drive up the cost of their overall health care, as well as high prices for cigarettes. Or are light-skinned and prone to sun burns? These include, but are not limited to: man buns and beards; whether jam or cream goes first on a scone; the colour of The Dress; and smoking. Sitting behind a desk as an adult, or behind the computer as a child is our biggest problem. With nearly 16 percent of Americans now uninsured, the rate has been rising for years as prices for prescription drugs and hospital care have escalated. ), and that they are concerned with expense. Iam a fat smoker and I say no. Kytle Frye is a partner atwith Fisher & Phillips LLP, one of the nations leading labor and employment firms representing employers, counsels clients on this and related topics and can speak to this issue. Here are a few tips for quitting smoking: Find your why. A close examination of the arguments for and against this policy reveals that it is not. And again if the Doctor says you need help in achieving your goal in health. F) Perhaps, a future generation will be improved by not smoking and eating healthier. I realize this is a difficult area to try to control as some activites are based on genetic predisposition, etc. This objection is not very persuasive, however, because financial penalties do not significantly limit personal freedom. Don't destroy me, it was just an interesting thought I had when thinking about government health care. Three steps ought to be taken. If you use too much insulinyou'll gain weight (who ever you are). I have no idea how the specifics would play out. came here to say this, and I agree. It never ends. Compensation may impact where the Sponsors appear on this website (including the order in which they appear). Voluntary choices are made around individual smoking and eating habits and companies may likewise choose to acknowledge these habits as liabilities. As a person who is living large, I can tell you that I don't have high blood pressure, I don't have diabetes, my knees and back are fine. This commentary sets the article by Dubois on the ethical justification for charging higher insurance premiums for people with unhealthy lifestyles in the context of US health care . What are they planning for the medicaid system, smokers and fat individuals that receive public assistance and free insurance. The four of us were so taken by the show that we wrote these reflections on its important ethical themes. These are things that people can control, and why anyone would choose to smoke in this day in age is beyond me. Tobacco is addictive, and quitting can be tough. Private health insurance wasn't created so everyone could get healthy it is a financial product in the United States. This is provocatively simplistic, betrays the lack of decency befouling this country, and represents why government can't leave corporations to run health care. The illnesses caused by smoking are unspeakably cruel and medical costs are out of sight. There's my point. Instead, we should discourage them from smoking. Good Question! There are too many things that can cause one's life to be shortened. Now that's the question you need to be asking. Hopefully these penalties will get these overindulgent people to quit their bad habits and lead healthier lives thus live longer. I need sick insurance regardless if I deserved it or was born with a genetic flaw. For one its not any healthier for others that do not smoke with others that smoke around them, What good is paying health insurance, If your health is not on the healthy side. So smokers seem to be an excellent target to help employers manage costs. I am a smoker for 14 years now and my answer to the question is; YES! If I wasn't so blessed, I couldn't afford medical insurance at all. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". We really need a complete national group single payer medical coverage for all. Or somewhat young in age and more prone to colds than older folks? Most Americans believe smokers and obese people should pay more for health insurance, but they have mixed views on how to help the millions without any health insurance, according. For example, if the cost of insurance is more than 9.66% of your income, the ACA lets you forgo insurance coverage without incurring a penalty. After all, those type of people are much more likely to run up high doctor bills. Yes, Jack. Links found on the CompareClub website do not necessarily imply an endorsement or recommendation of the information or views that are expressed by the external party. Smokers do not currently pay more for health insurance premiums, due to Australia's community-rated health insurance system. States, however, can set their own rules to reduce or eliminate that surcharge, and 10 so far have chosen to do so. Cost of health care must be addressed, everyone should be required to purchase insurance. B) Will increased premiums be motivation enough for smokers to quit and fat people to reduce and eat healthily? CCA is a credit rep (Credit Representative Number 519886) of Alternative Media Pty Ltd (ACL Number 486326), please see our Credit Guide. If you're quitting smoking, consider annual renewable term life If you smoke tobacco or cannabis, vape, or chew tobacco, you will pay more for life insurance. Charging smokers higher health insurance rates is popular and legal, but is it ethical? Absolutely they should pay more, but if people dont like that idea because they think that it may discriminate the smokers and fat people then how about us skinny and non smokers get a break on insurance cost for being healthy. The penalty for smoking will depend on where you live or work. Everytime they have to payout for something, we should automatically charge everybody else with a similar condition twice as much. simply put, yes. Image via iStock, Improved life expectancy. Although my company does not provide anything to assist me with these items, there is plenty of free and low cost assistance on both items. Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own. The arguments against charging smokers higher insurance rates appeal to considerations of social justice and fairness. So to those healthy ones out there shouting "YES they should charge".. beware, they may be charging you for breathing fresh air one day! No one, not even the near dead, should pay MORE to these vultures. 88% of smokers began smoking before age 18. What if we asked patients what they want? Fair is fair! There should also be discounts for people who live an active life style, and take care of themselves in comparison to their age group! Around 60,000 Australian households were quizzed about health insuranceby One Big Switch. It is a shame that money has to be a motivator to incent someone to become healthy! for charging me more for healthcare. A better, but less dramatic solution is to continue an all-out assault on both alcohol abuse and production of food with too much sugar through education, public service, health providers and organizations. What famous person essentially cancelled themselves Press J to jump to the feed. Corporate medical syndrome, anyone? they need to be taught a lesson. If the answer is a choice between free behavior modification/education and wasting money on junk food, and they choose to waste money, this will decrease the money for waste, and encourage adopting behavior to save that money. Severance, a popular Emmy Award-winning show streaming on Apple TV+, is a rich cultural artifact. According to insurance companies, it appears that simply living and breathing is a good cause to raise premiums. No. Jack: Should fat people and smokers pay more for healthcare insurance? as for smokers , they no wht will happen to them.. an tht question should been broader n liittle mre respected. There are some topics of conversation that never fail to divide a crowd. We should tax people for smoking, not for receiving health insurance. If you choose to inhale smoke and you choose to eat fast food and unhealthy crap in vast quantities, then you choose to pay more for healthcare. Self-efficacy is essential "Analysis shows . Four-fifths of states follow that protocol, though most employer-based . Anyone can get sick or get cancer, have a horrid wreck and we all should have the same rates. Founded in 2010, CCI is the webs premier globalindependentnews source for compliance, ethics, risk and information security. If they quit smoking they save at least the $2190 and their rates will go down, so explain to me why this is bad. People who use more healthcare resources because of a poor lifestyle choice such as smoking or poor diet should pay more. It was MY CHOICE to go and buy cigarettes as it was my choice to quit. Federal government rules let employers charge smokers up to 50 percent of the cost of their health insurance benefits. In addition, some states have laws protecting employees who engage in legal off-duty conduct such as smoking. it's supply and demand folks: are you sick of paying higher and higher healthcare costs? The health insurance industry unexpectedly began to support a plan for universal health insurance for American citizens. Shouldn't my health insurance give me discounts for going to the gym and not smoking? Take this case before a jury of my peers, and the business or health insurance company that charges more for overweight people will lose the case. Both goals are important and necessary in todays business climate. As the figure shows, smokers are less likely to buy insurance under any circumstance, an unwise decision given the likelihood that they will incur higher-than-average healthcare expenses. This is why you have some health insurance companies charging different premiums for smokers and non-smokers. Some also argue that hiking smokers premiums serves as an incentive for them to kick the habit. What do people claim they do but in reality they dont? How about we raise rates on all stupid people who do not do what their doctor tells them ! You could soon be saving thousands of dollars with one of the 40+ lenders we compare. Adult film star Ron Jeremy found unable to stand trial for rape They have NO incentive to find cures for cancer and other illnesses because they would lose a fortune if they did. This is why we need the health care reform good or bad is better than none. Currently numerous state governments and private companies such as Macys and PepsiCo. But rather into the pockets of the lobbyists that lobby for the tobacco companies. Though I still occasionally meet someone who smokes, the behavior has mostly retreated from populations of higher socioeconomic status and has burrowed itself and its destruction in low income families. Those that drink alcohol excessively?, those that engage in unprotected sex?, abuse prescricption drugs and painkillers? So stick that in your McRib. Once implemented, the impact of the differential should be monitored to determine if it results in a disparate impact on employees in protected groups such as minorities and specific ethnicities. In a recent issue of Narrative Inquiry in Bioethics, 12 physicians discuss their experiences with grateful patient fundraising and take up legal and ethical issues. Yes, Jack, I think the insurance for smokers should be more expensive. I think that is a very good method. It's no secret that quitting cigarettes isn't as easy as not lighting up. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. A person with emphsema is a tremendous cost to the health care system and it is primarily caused by smoking. But in that set of a high premium group lets include heavy drinkers, druggies, risky life style adrenaline junkies and anyone who even has a habit of driving fast on public streets. Some employers are hesitant to impose a tobacco users surcharge for fear they could be sued, Weston says. Clearly, more research is needed on the relationship between financial incentives and smoking cessation. Read Grateful Patient Fundraising: Ethically Problematic or Altruistic? If you don't follow their instructions, then your premiums should go way up. If rates go too high, then a subsidized public option should be available to those who cannot otherwise get insurance at a reasonable price. I am sorry but if you are overweight or a tobacco user you are going to incur a greater risk and have a greater chance of needing insurance to cover costs. Why not Jack? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. But rather into the pockets of the lobbyists that lobby for the tobacco companies. Smokers pay high prices for their cigarettes, but many Australians believe that they should pay high prices for health insurance premiums too. What about those who use to be silm and later became FAT? Just look at the people riding the motorized shopping carts. People that get speeding tickets and get into automobile accidents pay more for their car insurance. 1 cause of preventable disease, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Proponents for smokers also argue that as the less affluent, less educated are more likely to smoke and to not participate in smoke cessation programs, imposing a differential has a disproportionate adverse impact, which may amount to racial or national origin discrimination. Guess who has to indirectly pick up that tab. No. A) Yes! Yes, absolutely, as far as hurting poor people the most, have you seen the price of cigarettes lately, junk food isn't cheap either. I don't have cancer. If you do this let's include ALL the circumstances that can shorten life or cause one to need health care. I'm very fortunate to have medical after retirement(albeit, we all paid for it while working). It has had significant effects on obesity throughj dirt control in schools, Tougher laws on DWI are certainly needed, too. Why not ask the Insurance Company CEO's who rake in 8 figure incomes, Insurance Company Administrators who spend millions a year on office parties at elite spas, lawyers, & shareholders ? Tune in to "The Situation Room" at 4 p.m. Why would us healthier employees have to foot their hiking rate of insurance for them? Rich Barlow. On top of that just tell me how to live my life too. In the past few years, many employers have been trying to get workers to voluntarily improve their health to help bring down soaring insurance costs. Yes, I think that people who smoke and are obese should pay more in health insurance premiums to offset the increasing costs of their eventual care once they become ill as a result of their unhealthy lifestyle. In most cases, employees could qualify by participating in a wellness program or a smoking cessation class. How about women that keep spitting out babies ? A study of 20,000 employees showed smokers had more hospital visits per 1,000 (124 vs. 76), had a longer average length of stay (6.5 vs. 5 days) and made six more visits to medical facilities per year than non-smokers. What's next then? Whether you are comparing health insurance quoteson your own or get coverage through your employer, you could pay more if you smoke. A recent survey found that 2 out of 3 Australians believed that smokers and people with other unhealthy habits should pay more for their health cover. This is self-inflicted risk that clearly results in higher medical costs. Why not include illegal drug users and alcoholics. The idea is also dead wrong. However, before employers can levy the surcharge they must give smokers an opportunity to qualify for nonsmoker rates by offering a way for them to quit. I excersise every day, eat healthy and take care of myself. But this is not true. Fat people and smokers definetly should pay more for their Health Insurance. Ms Ley also dismissed claims obese people and smokers could pay more for their private health insurance, but defended the government's right to ask "tough questions" about it given the private health insurance rebate cost it over $6 billion a year. Generally speaking, healthcare costs are higher for smokers, and they often have higher rates of absences. Here's my question to you: Should smokers and fat people pay more for health care? The basic concept of insurance is to spread risk. And I think it was hard for someone like Jackie Chan to find health insurance for his stunt work. If they can pay for their smoking, there is no way they can not pay for their additional cost of their own health care, if they can kill them selves with money why to be burden other people who lives healthy life style. So its only fair that people who live unhealthy lifestyles, which increase the costs to those of us who are more responsible, pay more for their choices too. How about smokers and fat people pay for their own health care? This stuff is expensive, and I personally don't want to pay for John Doe's chemotherapy when he has smoked for 50 years. If you drive an expensive or exotic car you pay more for insurance. "Fat" people. Once you start separating the herd you'll need to take out sky divers, surfers, race car drivers, anorexics, clumsy people, etc., etc., etc. Ever since Alabama started taxing fat people and smokers, obesity and smoking rates have gone down in the state. If you have a certain prescription, or just have a test ordered from your doctors, the insurance companies will raise the premiums once a year regardless of whether this condition has been confirmed or not. Some potential state law concerns also could arise with a differential. (post continues after gallery.). Smoking clearly impacts health care costs and may legitimately affect premium rates, but are there pitfalls and dangers in imposing premium differentials? How much do you think a video cassette player would sell for these days? If you have a thyroid problem, you'd better have a doctor's note. Customer Service. I believe that working people wether smokers, fat, or just plain ill, should NOT be charged more for health insurance, while individuals that do not work at all get 100% coverage. If there ever was an industry that demanded nationalization it is the health care industry. If smoking will not be banned, then double its price. Of course they should pay more. Compare Club makes it simple to choose a better energy plan. When you apply for health insurance, you are required to report whether or not you are a smoker. Jack.you've just described 50% of America !!! thank Jack. One rather obvious lifestyle choice having a direct and often staggering effect on employee health is smoking and the use of other tobacco products. He or she can suggest a range of resources that can help you as you cut smoking out of your life. No. Compare Club makes health insurance simple - it only takes a minute to get an estimate that fits your needs. Therefore, any reliance placed on the information provided on the CompareClub website is at the user's own risk. Why stop at smokers and the obese. The ACA recognizes the increased costs associated with smoking employees by allowing insurers to raise smokers premiums up to 50 percent over those paid by non-smokers. And its not guarenteed that all smokers will burden the health care system. Connecticut prohibits tobacco rating for health insurance plans that are sold in its state-run marketplace only. He has a brain tumor. While it's true that smoking does cost the healthcare system a significant amount of money each year, it's also worth considering the extra taxes smokers are paying. The Unvaccinated Should Pay More For Health Insurance. If those at a higher risk paid more for health cover, it would theoretically reduce the cost for other people. If I chose to remain fat by following an unhealthy lifestyle then I should pay the cost for the consequences. Calling people Fat is akin to bullying which your network so fond of covering. then we must determine just what obese means, and to whom. Not all products available from our partners are compared and not all products are available to all customers. Obviously, but the mere mention of it in this country means you must be a communist, because you're taking money from one group and giving it to another. So why can't people with bad health habits be considered high risks also. Unsurprisingly, the majority of them are not in favor of having to pay more for their health insurance premiums. If they are lazy and indulge themselves with bad food and refuse to change that! And let's be clear here, it is overwhelmingly statistically supported that smokers and the overweight suffer health issues and require more money. Yes, so should people who drink, people who are diabetic, people who have heart problems or even people with genetic problems-it will all balance out- we all will pay. Risk does not mean something will happen but there is a chance something may. If this is fair, then why not have Phillip Morris kick in? There are several acceptable terms such as overweight. Obviously they have higher medical costs associated with the ills that come with smoking. We could be next in line just so because we are short. Hell no. Smoking tobacco increases your risk of heart disease, lung disease, and other health problems. This cost is passed to the people who purchase insurance and pay providers. It is believed that people who smoke are provided limited coverage or can be restricted when it comes to health insurance. I also don't have an issue with taxing excessive drinkers either. We're both fat, and we both smoke. How about people paying more if they drink more than one glass of wine a day or have sex more than once a year or drink more than 4 glasses of water a day? And people who drive more than others, people who work 3 jobs, people who don't work enough, people who drink too much, those that don't drink enough. A study of 20,000 employees showed that smokers had more hospital visits per 1,000 (124 versus 76), had a longer average length of stay (6.5 versus 5 days) and made six more visits to health care facilities per year than non-smokers. Radley Balko's alter ego "Randy" argues that they should in an AJC op-ed. How to find good vaccine information online. If higher insurance premiums gets there attention I am all for it. Smokers, however, should definitely pay more for health care, etc. The employer cant just hope the employee finds out about the wellness program either, Weston says. Sure they should, as long as drinkers and potheads follow suit. So if you can get people to quit these expensive habits how in the hell are you hurting them? They take non-stop breaks throughout the day, contaminate air outside the office (and drag it inside as well), and drive up health care costs for everyone. And where would you draw the line and how would you adjust rates? You start slipping down a slippery slope when you single out select segments of the population. As for smokers, that is much more clear-cut and it would make sense to raise rates for those. Since it would be impossible, and unfair, to have exepmtions for all the possiblities of lifestyle choice or legitimate medical neccessity, charging more for the obese is a tough call. How many that do smoke get a physical on a yearl basis? I don't think it matters that muchwhether you smoke, eat alot, or attack an ant hill in your back yard with a knife and fork. How does primary and secondary insurance work? Jack, President Barack Obamas signature piece of legislation, the Affordable Care Act (ACA), allows employers who provide health insurance and public and private health insurers tocharge smokers up to 50 percent higher rates. Search thousands of physician, PA, NP, and CRNA jobs now. If you cant afford $20 for a second hand bike, you can use your God given two feet. Smoking and obesity is a free choice. Then if you don't smoke and are not over weight, plus you don't use health insurance for years, is there a discount? Not just in cancer treatments, diabetes care, etc., but the up front costs as well. Seems to make sense. There is no question that smoking increases health risks and those who don't smoke shouldn't have to bear the burden of those who choose this insidiious habit. So if your reckless with your health then you should pay more, When will man move to his next level of consciousness and realize we're all in this together ? 2023 Compare Club, All Rights Reserved. METALWORKER in La Salle, IL. If youre coming to Australia on a temporary 600 visa, Overseas Visitor Health Cover (OVHC) is health insurance that cov From dentists to optometrists, its nice to build a relationship and enjoy that personal touch. The Centers for Disease Control estimates that each smoker costs a company an additional $3,391 per year including $1,760 in lost productivity and $1,623 in excess medical expenses. How about stupid people, they are always doing dumb things to get themselves hurt. The fact for both of these groups is that their problems are self induced. SMoking, excessive drinking, over eating should be the responsiblity of the person who practices these activiites. The potential unintended consequences of the Affordable Care Act are unsettling enough, but even without the ACA, employers have been stung by soaring increases in health insurance premiums. Should auto insurance favor safe drivers with discounts? Around 70% of people who have a college degree (or a higher degree), also said they were in support of charging smokers more for health insurance. I guess intellectual consistency isn't our strong suit. Charging people rates based on their personal risks protects insurance companies against moral hazard, people taking risks without bearing the consequences. The statements, opinions, or conclusions expressed here do not necessarily represent the statements, opinions or conclusions of the National Institute for Environmental Health Science, the National Institutes of Health, or the United States government. The idea is simple: smokers have the right to smoke, but not the right to pass on the increased cost of their healthcare to others. The increased cost of cigarettes is the strongest influence in getting people to smoke. Hey Jack- These people should probably pay more but YOU should pay more attention to the words you use. Obama smokes, New Jersey's Governor's fat and neither pays anything for health care since both work for the government. They should only be charged more if 1) their habits actually incur measurably more cost, and 2) those individuals without the same habits get a discount. Our radiology departments answer was, Well, theres always the zoo.. It only takes a minute to see how much you could save. In 2011, two-thirds of companies with 200 or more employees set up cessation programs to help their smoking employees quit. Healthy Reader tired of making excuses for my fellow Lazy Americans. If you get a lot of speeding/reckless driving tickets or accidents you paay more for auto insurrance-same principle. No!! Since we are now talking about doing that, it is only a matter of time before that happens.
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